Participant: David, I have a question.
David: Oh good, I'm so happy.
Participant: Um, I have read about "I Am That" from Vedas and J. Krishamurti and UG and Nisargadatta Maharaj.
David: No not UG, UG would never say that.
Participant: He said "Natural State".
David: "Natural State", not "I Am That", he would never do that. Go ahead.
Participant: So what is that that?
David: What is what that? What is the that that they are referring to?
David: Me. My own being. Your being.
Participant: What is the being?
David: You can't really state what it is. It has no attributes.
Participant: How do you experience it?
David: Directly, with you mind. With your intelligence. And with your heart. Knowing it you become it. Knowing That you become That.
Participant: How do you know That?
David: By becoming That. By becoming it. So you reverse it. You become It by knowing It. And you know It by becoming It.
Participant: How do you become It?
David: Through transmission. Through giving up your own limited self identity and letting it dissolve through grace. Through the grace of the spiritual teacher, the guru, the master, or through the inherent radiance of your own self. Your own self might choose you to reveal itself to. So you can say two things; it can choose you or you can choose it. You can choose to know it, investigate and find out, or it may just come and knock on the door and introduce itself to you. It may choose you. It may just come.
Participant: So when it comes it may arise in you?
David: You are it. You don't know it.
Participant: So you just need to recognize it?
David: You don't even need to recognize it. Even that would be a movement away from what is. There’s no duality. There’s no duality at that moment. There's no difference between the one who recognizes and that which is recognized. They are one.
Participant: But there is still clearly separation all the time.
David: Not in that moment. And you will never feel separation again. Although this will appear. This can appear without separation. Just because this appears doesn't mean it's separate. Duality within the unity, not duality all by itself apart from the unity. Unity in duality. Unity in duality. Duality into unity. So then, there’s no distinction. It's like if you dissolve salt in water. At first you see the salt but you keep stirring. You keep stirring eventually there’s no more salt to be seen. But if you taste the water it's salty. You know the salt is in there. So you don't say that the salt has disappeared. No. It's just changed it's appearance. So the substance of the changing world can change in the light of the Self. The light of the Self begins to penetrate every particle. So you find the Self everywhere, radiating everywhere. Only consciousness is at that point. You may say, "But what is this then?" It's Consciousness.
Participant: So Consciousness is the form of everything?
David: Yes, everything takes the form of Consciousness. Consciousness is penetrating, has overcome everything. There is only Consciousness. And just the way that the sea has waves that you can still discern. Its still the ocean. That's it. The wave is not different then the ocean. Even when it comes out it takes a particular form. But it never leaves the ocean. Correct? You've seen the waves how they, right, a big crest? And then what? And then it falls down. And then it re-merges back into the body of the water. So what was all that? You have to ask the same question about these bodies and this world. What is all this? All this movement? All this change? These bodies seem different. You're a wave. I'm a wave in the same being. But you have to learn to see that.
Participant: So you have to train yourself to see?
David: No training!
Participant: Then why do we see separation all the time?
David: Because separation exists just like the wave exists. You have to see the whole. If you put...
Participant: But that's not my experience in everyday of going to the world; you always see the separation.
David: Yes, you'll always see the separation. The separation is just superimposed on the unity. Just the way the wave is superimposed on it's own ocean. The wave is that same ocean. It's superimposed. That's why you see it. Because it rises, it moves, in that form. So we take on form in the same way. The problem is not that you see waves. You don't want to go and pat the ocean down to get unity. You don't want to get rid of every wave so you feel comfortable looking at the ocean that doesn't change. You see that that's a wrong approach? So you don't want to suppress the formation of waves. Look at it this way, you want the waves to continue to arise because that's what makes life beautiful. The wind blowing and the trees moving in the wind. You can't stop that to have unity.
Participant: But do you get the glimpse of the ocean?
David: Do you?
Participant: I don't
David: Do I? I don't need any more glimpses, I am That. I am the ocean. But am. Not know myself to be. Not think I am. That exists. No realizer of it. I'm not in a position to say to you, "I go on realizing that". Go ahead, what's the next question?
Participant: So there are no enlightened people.
David: Right, now you're getting it. Now you’ve understood. No enlightened people. No enlightened individuals. No enlightened person.