Utility

Swami-G & David Spero in Conversation, Part 8 - Jan 21, 2010

Recorded on: 
21.01.2010

Swami-G: We've said on this path we have two different things. I don't give specific practices to those that are in relationships, because what happens is, they have a tendency to go inward too quickly and then they wanna become silent. They're no longer wanting to engage in so many of the things that the partner was engaging in and then the partner starts freaking out that "you're pulling away from me," etc., etc. So, that's why in this path we have two different dynamics. It's not to say one is better than the other one. If you're here to have relationship and children and whatever you're having, that's fine too. It's absolutely fine. And, if you're geared to be celibate, you know, and you wanna do that internal journey, and you're ready to do it rapidly, then that's another thing as well. So ...

David: And, it might even be someone that's celibate for many years and then discover that it's time to have a relationship, or vice versa. That's possible.

Swami-G: It is possible. Anything's possible. That's all. Anything's possible.

David: I don't have any strictures in regards to this, so when I teach, I just basically treat everyone the same, only because it's the way I do it. It's neither better nor worse than your approach.

Swami-G: No, no, it's just different approaches. Every teacher has got a different approach. That's all.

David: That's it.

Swami-G: That's all. What might work here, you know, might work here fine for some and won't work at all for others. And, what might work well for some that you're working with, with others, it might not work for them at all. Same thing. Not one methodology or one teacher is gonna be right for every student. That's the reality of it. That's why we have many different paths, many different modalities, because there are many different people on the planet. It's many different consciousness and things they're going through. Things they can hear and things they can't here. So, that's all . . .

David: Such a beautiful silence that when we stop talking, there's just that fullness.

Swami-G: Yeah. That's why Ramana's best teaching was silence. Then, the words don't get in the way. Words are a headache.

David: But, if you don't speak, then people go on imagining what they came in with.

Swami-G: Yeah. Sometimes, yes.

David: So, it's good to talk.

Swami-G: Yeah, up to a point. Yeah, maybe.

David: Maybe . . . But, it is time for the Feminine to come forth and reassert itself in the field even of human philosophical understandings, metaphysical, religious. We've been in the grip of patriarchy for many, many centuries.

Swami-G: Yeah.

David: And so, I see the birth of the Shakti now. Teachers like you who are coming forward talking freely and openly about the Kundalini and its place in Realization. I see it as being as part of the pioneering movement toward restructuring our understanding, -- not always in favor of a non-active Absolute -- but also in terms of the validity and the beauty and the necessity of the play of nature that is, also, to be loved and respected.

Swami-G: Oh, exactly. It's not two. It's not separate one from the other.

David: They're identical.

Swami-G: They're identical.

David: Nirvana and samsara.

Swami-G: One is motion, the other one is not motion. That's the only difference.

David: That's the only difference.

Swami-G: Yeah, that's the only difference. One is in motion and the other is not in motion.

David: So, the ultimate state is a union between Shiva and Shakti.

Swami-G: Yeah, when realization takes place and everything falls away, in the midst of action is inaction. In the midst of sound is silence. They're no longer separate. It's not two. It's no longer either sound or silence. Whereas before, in persona, there's either silence or there's sound. But, they weren't the equal. But, after realization.. (clearing her throat)

David: (asking a participant) Some water for Swami?

Swami-G: Yeah, I'm kind of . . . After realization, in the midst of all, sound is also silence. It's no longer two.

David: Yeah, it's very important.

Swami-G: (taking a bottle from a participant) Thank you.

David: Wanna take a break?

Swami-G: (shaking her head, gesturing no)

David: OK.

Swami-G: I'm fine, thank you. Yeah, the throat mechanism is not working so well at the moment, but that's OK. It's only the body. It's just a vehicle. Vehicle is gonna do what it's gonna do sometimes, you know. What you gonna do? So, we've had a very good time today.

David: Exquisite. We had a beautiful lunch. And I thank you for the invitation to come to San Francisco and meet with you.

Swami-G: Oh, I thank you.

David: It's not often that I get such invitations. If anything, I get hate mail. So, I was very startled when Nandaya wrote me a letter saying, may we meet? And I said, of course. Of course.

Swami-G: Well, you've said one time, in the far back time, you teachers, come sit with me.

David: Yes. Yes.

Swami-G: And I always take him up on that. You know, if I'm in the area, I will come sit with you.

David: Yes. Good. Absolutely.

Swami-G: Absolutely.

David: Thank you. That's wondeful.

Swami-G: Thank you.

David: I think it's a mutual honor and I think we both feel the same.

Swami-G: I think it's gone really well today and it usually does. Usually, when you get teachers and they get together, you have a lot of laughter. I've met Shanti Mayi before. We've had a lot of laughter and just, you know, you look at and you try to talk about . . . Usually, the conversation comes around, how can we explain this to people. How can we better further their understanding? What words can be used because words are so minimal, you know. Words are so . . .

David: Yes, inadequate.

Swami-G: Inadequate. It's so difficult because you may say one word and ten people will have ten different connotations around it.

David: Yes.

Swami-G: And so, it's really difficult to come to a meeting of the minds because everybody's experience is different. And their conditioned ideas are different. And so, the ideas about any word are gonna be different. So, it's very difficult to come up with a neutral language that's not filled with all sorts of, you know, tough things.

David: There is no neutral language.

Swami-G: There is no neutral language. We need a neutral language.

David: Silence.

Swami-G: Yeah, silence.

David: That's neutral.

Swami-G: That's the only one we have. It‘s neutral.

David: But, how do you get the understanding to come into this unless you start to converse and . . .

Swami-G: That's the problem.

David: So, you know, I've always had a good . . .

Swami-G: We have a catch twenty-two here.

David: Yes.

Swami-G: Between a rock and a hard place.

David: Yes.

Swami-G: You have to use language to try to break through the mind to get it to a point where it can still and they can let go off some of these things and the mind can start to enter the quietude.

David: Have you ever had someone not even hear what you've said?

Swami-G: Oh yeah.

David: You can say something and they come up with a radically different understanding.

Swami-G: Oh yeah.

David: Sometimes ten people purport ten different teachings I gave in the same evening.

Swami-G: Exactly. Exactly, that's the problem because they're all hearing through their conditioning and it's filtering through all of their, you know, experiences. And so, yeah, this is the problem.

David: The ancient philosopher, Heraclitus, said that even though the logos is one, each person lives as though they exist in a private reality.

Swami-G: Exactly. And that's what has to be broken through, that private reality to come back to prior to that experience.

David: OK.

Swami-G: Yeah.

David: That's good for today, huh?

Swami-G: I think that's good.

David: Namaste.

Swami-G: We'll leave it at that.

David: Namaste.

Swami-G: Namaste.