Utility

Swami-G & David Spero in Conversation, Part 7 - Jan 21, 2010

Recorded on: 
21.01.2010

Swami-G: So, what we were saying while the camera was off was that when realization takes place, everything falls away and no longer are you male or female, at that point. It's just Absolute. It's just straight Consciousness. It's like intellect without knowledge - just absolutely pure Is. Therefore, one cannot come back, you know, from that reality where everything is blown out and then go into some prejudice or can carry forward any prejudice. It's impossible. How could one perpetuate these types of stereotypical prejudices, when it's absolutely the living reality that there is no male, no female, nor does any of this have anything to do with it.

David: Then, there must indeed be only very few beings who take this path to the end, if that's how you end up; because I haven't seen many too many progressive avatars or satgurus on the planet.

Swami-G: No, not a lot. No, not a lot.

David: So, the way you're defining it, and you're being quite clear here, that that Realization should give birth to tolerance, toward open-mindedness, toward generous in spirit, generosity within spirit. All of that is, in fact, this Realization.

Swami-G: Oh, absolutely.

David: Feeding everyone, everyone to have shelter, all of those things.

Swami-G: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It should awaken one to see that mankind is one. I don't care what color they are, what race they are, what gender they are. It doesn't make a difference. At the core of everything is that one singular Consciousness, that one singular Life Force. And, it doesn't matter the play of Shakti that happens around it that gives it its appearance of differentiation and its flavor, as one will. The flavor is to play and to enjoy, to be enjoyed. But, it doesn't mean that all of the sudden it should be categorized as good, bad, evil, whatever, you know. One can't continue in that mindset.

David: One has to identify with the Bliss of the Self, the bliss within the Atman, the Paramatman. That must be one‘s Abode.

Swami-G: Uh hmm. And that Paramatman is One. There's not many separate ones; it's One.

David: Language becomes a problem, doesn't it? Because once you construct a language -- we're using Vedic language, we're not using it naively, -- we're both consciously choosing to use these Vedic terms, because they resonate and describe more acurately than anything we can find in English the quality of this Living-Enlightenment understanding.

Swami-G: Right, right, exactly. But, even with that, it's still so far removed from the actual experience. Words are not it and all words come from duality. Therefore, there is no language of non-duality. It's impossible. This is prior to language. So, there are no words that are going to suffice to really tell the truth of what's there.

David: So, this is the real language of non-duality, that there is no language.

Swami-G: Right.

David: And, if this is understood, deeply, than anyone traveling any path can then get along at the end, because we will know that it's unstructured in the end.

Swami-G: Right.

David: There's no God's plan, there's no plan for God. God has no plans.

Swami-G: I love that one.

David: There's no such thing as a goal-directed life, a purpose-driven life.

Swami-G: No. No.

David: A purpose-driven life is an illusory life.

Swami-G: Right. Right. Right. There's no big mind up there.

David: There's no Big Controlling Anything.

Swami-G: No running, no planning. No, no. That‘s got it all figured out. No, absolutely not.

David: So, this is a big experiment.

Swami-G: Yeah, it's like I said. You get there and you find out it's like pure intellect without knowledge, prior to knowledge. It's all great potential. And then, Shakti is the experiential, where one step potential starts to bloom and blossom in so many different ways into the dance.

David: And that's why the Shakti is so important to understand, not necessarily the word Shakti, but to understand that you are alive in This. You are animated and lived in that Current that is living everything and everyone.

Swami-G: Exactly.

David: And there'll be no duality about that Shakti. It's not a dualistic phenomenon. It's not a phenomenon in Consciousness. It's not part of the Maya. It's That which is arising, the force of arisingness itself. And so, it must be a part of a mature spiritual awakening. I was gonna say sexual. That would have been an interesting slip of the tongue. I was gonna say . . .

Swami-G: (laughing) O'oh.

David: But, that's all sexuality is at that other level; it is the functioning, that play of Current in the body. Whatever is digesting your food, whatever is beating your heart, would give you sexual experience at that point. So, what's the problem?

Swami-G: Well, it‘s not that there's a problem with it, but what happens is, what I found here, is people that are engaging in a lot of sexual dynamic, a lot of times it keeps the mind engaged in a lot more drama. That's all.

David: So can watching movies.

Swami-G: Yeah, watching movies too, but it's a soap opera of life.

David: There's certainly a lot of magnetic quality within sex and certainly it can be like an ocean current of drawing-power. But, that only goes to prove the validity that it's a very powerful thing indeed.

Swami-G: It is. It can be a very powerful thing.

David: And, some people see sex merely on its pleasure terms. That it's only about extracting an aspect of what pleases them instead of going into the whole heart journey that real falling in love would entail.

Swami-G: Right. Right.

David: So, for some people, as you said, sex will be dangerous; for other people, sex will be fine. In fact, it might even be a necessity for certain people. That their own parabda is geared toward living in communion with another human being in an intimate setting, gay or straight.

Swami-G: Yeah, doesn't matter, gay or straight, has nothing to do with anything. Doesn't have anything to do with anything.