Utility

Swami-G & David Spero in Conversation, Part 5 - Jan 21, 2010

Recorded on: 
21.01.2010

Swami-G: (petting her dog) He's pretty dark. You can't see him under there, my little chocolate boy.

Swami-G's student: Roger, look this way. Now, you can see him. We've got a good shot of him, so he's in the audience, too, but he's not asking any questions.

Swami-G: No, he's just taking it all in. He's smart.

Swami-G's student: You mentioned sexual desires with the enlightened. That was interesting cause it seems like even not being enlightened here, the sexual desires have gone away. So, it would be hard to picture how that would remain after enlightenment.

David: The same way that physical hunger remains, exactly the same way, no difference. The urge to sleep remains. Sometimes dreaming will remain. The waking state remains intact. The waking state and the world of forms do not dissolve into desireless emptiness. So, some people might have a parabda toward a life of sexual existence.

Swami-G: And then for some, it falls away.

David: Others might go toward deep celibacy. There's no way to predict or even expect such a thing.

Swami-G: Yeah, exactly. And some fall away. That's all.

David: The most important thing is that you're not playing games anymore.

Swami-G: No. No.

David: It's not because you think you don't wanna be celibate, so that you look good. You can say it, you know, if you're celibate, it's just who you are at that point. And certainly, the only reason we have to even give an answer like this is because we have been brow-beaten with the notion that sex is dirty. So that now I have to now give an explanation as to why it's permissible after enlightenment. So, the assumptions that are underlying relative existence are what I call voodoo, religious voodoo, and cheap philosophical kind of understandings, that are not gratuitous; they are not open-hearted toward all of human experience. Certainly, if this body-mind is, and it does come equipped with sexual desire and function, there can be no fault in it from the very beginning. In fact, I don't know how else I could have gotten here. Maybe Swami-G has a comment on this.

Swami-G: Yeah, for some it falls away. And for some, you know, we have some that are realized, and they're still in marriages and that goes on and, you know, and that's fine. It is what it is.

David: It is what it is.

Swami-G: You know, on this path we have two ways of going. There are the ones that are celibate and there are the ones that are not. And, I give two different practices for those that are celibate versus those that are not. That's all.

David: And that's common in ashram teachings.

Swami-G: It's personal choice. That's all.

David: And what's right? Someone came to me last week and they said that sex is really a liability for them. So, I've said, you know, if you're having that perception, maybe sex can destroy a life like yours. So, back off.

Swami-G: Yeah, so don't do it.

David: Don't do it.

Swami-G: It's that simple.

David: And other people will get destroyed if they don't have sex. They get consumed with fantasy, endless fantasizing and being drawn into their subjectivity through the resistance of that, so just find a damn relationship and enjoy it. Don't make a big fuss about it. I mean that's not gonna be the maker or the breaker in a realization. If there's anything that's going to be the deal breaker, it's playing games and lack of sincerity, lack of genuineness, lack of self love for who you are. And giving that over into your practice, if practice is necessary. There may be some people for whom practice is not necessary. I don't presume to know who might be beneficial of practices. I always put the burden on the student and say, look, it's your life. I'll facilitate. I'll help. I'll be there. I'll sit in this with you. But please, you make your decisions and live through their consequences. That way you'll learn.

Swami-G: Well, exactly. Everyone has to live through the consequences of their actions. That's why people would come to me and they'll ask me, what should I seek. Don't ask me what to do. You have to live with the outcome of your actions. I don't have to live with it. Why are you asking me for?

David: You might. You might.

Swami-G: Oh, yeah. Well if it's, you know, yeah..

David: If you give the advice.

Swami-G: Well, yeah. That's why I don't give the advice. It's not my problem. Don't ask. You have to live with the consequences of your actions.

David: So, is there any hope for the human race? That's what I'd like to ask you.

Swami-G: Well, there's always hope.

David: Not Obama style hope. I'm talking about real hope.

Swami-G: There's always hope. There's always hope. Yeah. One has free will. They can change their direction. That's all. So many are just wrapped up in their drama. They don't wanna change their direction. They want all the world to change their direction. You know, so what can one do? All we can do is just to continue to give out what we can give out. You know, and hopefully mankind sees that the way they've been doing it is just bringing more suffering. So, hopefully they start turning things around. Yeah, but there's always hope.