Utility

Swami-G & David Spero in Conversation, Part 1: May 17, 2010

Recorded on: 
17.05.2010

Swami-G: You know.

Moderator: Namaste

Swami-G: Namaste, Namaste. We are here visiting wonderful California with Orley and with David Spero and it’s wonderful to see them again, and so we were having some nice conversation and it’s gone into something that’s may be interesting for people, I don’t know, so here we are.

David: It took us some time to probe deeply into the spiritual; we were having a lot of fun just talking informally.

Swami-G: A few preliminaries, yeah.

David: But we just struck, I feel, gold…

Swami-G: We just struck gold.

David: … you started to share something which is very important about the nature of a genuine spiritual master. And I think what you were saying, if I can just introduce this idea by means of dialog, is that you cannot find the genuineness in an Awakened Being, all you can find are incidentals, peculiarities, idiosyncrasies. But what you cannot find and discover is that inherent detachment and Self Transcendence which never takes any form and that many students apparently are looking more for that, for the peculiarity, for the symptom of Enlightenment rather than the actual Heart Awakening.

Swami-G: Right, right, right. Well, that’s it, you know when, and what I tell them, all you can tell them is you are not in this Consciousness, you know, and you can’t do it by externals. You can’t look at, they have to look a certain way, walk a certain way, talk a certain way and then that would prove their Enlightenment, you know, but it doesn’t. So the last thing I told somebody was read the Vivekachudamani and it will tell you, you know, that you can’t judge it in, like they say, ‘you can’t judge a book by its cover’ you just, you can’t. Because some will lay like a slug, some will act like they’re mad, some will be in the world, some would be not in the world and they are all in the State of Realization, that same Consciousness. But, so you can’t go by what they’re wearing or how they’re talking or how they’re presenting. There are no external factors that are going say, that’s an Enlightened Being and people get taken to the cleaners because they want somebody that’s going to fit all of their fantasy notions about what they read about an Enlightened Being. And 99 times out of 100 they take the stories of the ones that have been Enlightened and Realized and they clean everything up and bring it into this fantasy notion and land again, you know.

People say, “well, you are wearing make-up therefore you are in vanity and this and that” well, what do you want people? You know, no, there is nobody here, I’m no one, I’m nothing. No one, I’m nothing, there is no story any longer. But what do you think that that means? … that you should walk around and what? …never take a bath? …or never what? What does it prove, I mean, should you be wondering shoeless? …what does it matter? If they are that point in make-up or if you are in Sannyasi robes or what? It doesn’t matter, plus none of that means anything any longer. All of that stuff is only significant when you are in the midst of the journey and you are thinking, “this is spiritual,” you know. But what’s not spiritual at the end of the journey? You know, all that’s left is life and we live it in the moment, and it’s fully, you know, it’s not separate, not two, not two. There is no separation, so there is no games, what, you know, what game is left? …you know. The problem I have with the spiritual, a lot of the spiritual communities, they have this game of the humility and if you were really humble, you know, and all of this other nonsense. There nothing more humble than just being what you are and who you are and just being with that, I mean no bullshit, no games. People like the game of humility along the way, “oh, have to talk soft and have to do this and have to do that”, but what is less humble about just being what’s there.

David: This is real Satsang, this is the genuine explanation. Many people want the package. The package…

Swami-G: Bells and whistles.

David: The package looks holy and there is a great confusion, just to phrase this in another way, between holiness and Realization, and holiness can appear only when there is episodic Enlightenment because when you reintegrate back into your humanness all you have to show for your Realization is your life. And if it’s not coming out every second through your natural process of living it’s not Full Awakening. If you have to appear trance like, if you have to appear like you are absorbed, you are only showing that you are still on the level of Savikalpa-like Samadhi experiences.

So we are talking here about Sahaj Samadhi, when the relaxation back into the human form becomes natural and unimposed upon oneself. In other words you are no longer creating a spiritual appearance in yourself for others to create an impression. In fact, I would say, and I think you might agree here, if realization means anything is that you have completely stopped pretending in every aspect, unless when you are pretending for the sake of enjoyment. If you go in a rock concert you are in the rock and roll environment and so you are another attendee so you play that game when you are there. If you are in a restaurant, you don’t act like an avadhoot, you just order food like everyone else and laugh and enjoy the food. So this whole idea of being attached and that as being an obstruction to appear attached in your daily living, that’s nonsense, as long as you are perceiving you’re attached. If you see a world, you are in the field of attachment. Now if there is not a part of you that is transcended at all there’s no amount of struggle or manipulation that is going to create Realization.

Swami-G: Exactly, exactly, it’s like when I go to LA, it’s the land of smoke and mirrors. I enjoy it, I have fun, you know. If I go to India, ok, people there understand sannyas, they understand it, when I’m there I wear the orange, no make-up, it’s just you know, that’s the land of what is there. It doesn’t mean that if I’m in the land of smoke and mirrors and if I’m wearing make-up that I’m still not a sattvi on some level, it doesn’t mean it. There is no actions that are going to contradict that, you know. But I’m in this society here, this is the society I live in and that’s who we deal with. You know, people want to have these, you know, the Realized Beings as sages, as saints, as the saints. You know, well, saints are into the, you know, still in that process of sainthood, you know, and one goes through more of that aspect along the way. But yeah, when Realization finally takes place then one becomes utterly normal, utterly normal. All the things of being sainthood and all of that is a lot of the phenomena of kundalini happens during that point, you know, when you have a lot of miracles and all of this other stuff that can take place. But with Realization it all falls away, there is no higher, no lower, what the heck is the specialness there, you know. There is not going to be anymore of this drama, just not, and so what does it matter what you wear.

Orley: All of the saints I ever heard of are dead.

Swami-G: All of the saints are dead? Yeah well, we all, we all die, and some of us die a little earlier than the body. [Laughing]. Dead, ok, ball game over, you know. But yeah, there is no longer this idea though I have appear like this or I have to appear like that, or second judging or second thinking about how I appear to others, you know, if they are going to accept it, if they are not, you know. That’s the realm of ego, when you get to this point you don’t give a rat’s ass, you know, how they’re going to perceive it. It is what it is. It’s like even Ramana, even Ramana, when he was there he was there he had…