Utility

The Essence of the Real - Part 7 May 7, 2002

Participant 2: So it’s a paradox of the Impersonal and the personal, the Formless and the form. The form side will always color it -- and as you said, all action generates karma, so even a fully Awakened Being is in one sense, causing problems as well as creating wonderful things.

David: Uh, uh: no problems created. Be careful.

Participant 2: From another point of view everything’s perfect, right? From another point of view, it you kick something over and it falls down….

David: It breaks. It may break….

Participant 2: …yes….

David: …and then the sound of that breaking noise can liberate someone, if I kick it down. If someone is in misery, when they kick it down, someone may not get liberated. Do you see the point?

Participant 2: Yes, you can’t really scrutinize it.

David: But even from a factual point of view, from an empirical point of view. You say action is generated out of this nervous system here.

Participant 2: Yes

David: That’s questionable.

Participant 2: Yes, it depends on how to look at it.

David: Is a vacuum cleaner generating more dirt?

Participant 2: No.

David: Well in some residual effect, huh? In some residual effect, when you clean a house you also create a little bit of dirt. But it’s just a small residual aspect of individuality that smears the atmosphere a little bit. It’s inconsequential compared to the good that it does.

Participant 2: Yes, it’s very small.

David: Yes, some great devotees want to lick that smear.

Participant 2: Yes, but without that, again, there’d be nothing to relate to in a personal way.

David: Exactly. So it’s a sacrifice that they come down, and they come into this suffering nervous system that’s full of action, that is in the field of action. So, when such Beings descend, they come just as a Gift. Yes, they come out of the same kind of human womb – and there’s running blood, and various fluids, as they come out of the womb that they’re born from -- but one doesn’t think of that. One cleans it up and moves on. So there’s always the residual reality of fear and ignorance even in this human nervous system, of course.

Participant 2: But the mind can’t begin to evaluate what is a mistake and what is not a mistake….

David: Exactly.

Participant 2: It’s bigger and bigger pictures…

David: In that State you cannot, in that State. And then who knows? Sometimes I may say, “I wish I hadn’t said that,” but that’s from my human point of view. I’ll get a call during the week and I’ll get profuse thanks that I said that, after I’ve apologized internally to whoever I may have said something to, if I felt it wasn’t totally right-on…

Participant 2: That’s the incongruity, which fascinates me….

David: That’s the Blessing Power, that confounds you! It’s interesting, isn’t it?

Participant 2: Yes it is.

David: It’s most fascinating.

Participant 2: So even the mind in this body here will not understand it.

David: No, absolutely not.

Participant 2: That would be actually embracing life, because it includes…..

David: That’s a mundane way of putting, that’s a nice way of putting it.

Participant 2: Making mistakes…

David: Yes absolutely…

Participant 2: Being hurt, or hurting others…

David: Most definitely that.

Participant 2: Being confused and yet…

David: Yes, always confused.

Participant 2: But from a higher point of view maybe everything’s perfect, maybe….

David: Well, the mind is confusion, the mind is a state of confusion, so when we speak of confusion we mean that this measuring device is navigating in this plane, but in fact is really not equipped to do that perfectly, so it’s always estimating, guesstimating, trying to wiggle it’s way around this -- sometimes very amusing and confusing -- reality.

This isn’t thought about, but it’s experienced.

In fact, there is no concrete Divine Origin of any action that is known. No one has any recollection, even the most Awakened Person, that their actions are right or pure or good. One always lives in this kind of basic innocence and simplicity, without contriving to be Divine, without contriving to be Awakened. So awaken-ness is not some concept that I’ve realized about myself. It’s something that has been irrevocably demonstrated against and through and beyond my will, that I am Consciousness Itself, always, without any fluctuating doubt.

Participant 2: In the actions that come out of this body, do they come out of the Source of everything?

David: When you say “actions that come out of this body,” that’s a grammatical sentence, which means that we don’t want to let the logical mind bite into that and think that the question is right, but go ahead.
Participant 2: I don’t mean come out of the body; when actions come out…do the actions originate from Divine Consciousness? Or do they all originate from the plane of duality?

David: Yes. Spoken very well. It’s very good. Feel better?

Participant 2: I just like talking to you.

David: Yes! [laughter] It’s good to talk now, because when this body- mind is dead there won’t be anyone to talk to. That’s what it’s here for. It’s like a Barbie doll, you pull the string, is that right? And then it talks? So it’s nice to have you pull my string.

[laughter]

Participant 1: Can I speak again?