Utility

Buddha At The Gas Pump Interview With David, Part 8

Recorded on: 
27.06.2010

Rick: …killed himself about a month ago and this guy was remarkable. He had a very profound impact on people. He had a great sense of humor - wonderful person, everyone loved him. At his memorial service a couple of people spoke who had been having private sessions with him for about a year and they felt like their lives had been utterly transformed. His parents had this very interesting perspective on the whole thing, there were about 400 or 500 people at his memorial service, and I spoke also because he and I had been meeting in a spiritual satsang for several years together with others. His parents said that they always felt this kid was not of this world and that he always felt like he didn’t really belong here - he was just a visitor - in fact he would often outline options to his dad, he would say, “Well I can do this, I can do this, I could do this or I could leave the planet.” And his dad would say, “Why don’t you scratch that one of the list.”

I read something at his service that his best friend had sent me; he had confided in his friend several years earlier that he felt that he was an avatar, that he was not of this plane, didn’t belong here, ultimately had just come for some kind of temporary mission or purpose and wasn’t necessarily going to stick around a long time. It blew every body’s minds that I read this thing out loud. They thought, “These people are nuts, his parents are buying into this, maybe we can grant them the latitude of believing it, but you should know better, you should have more responsibility than to propagate this kind of notion. It’s going to give all our kids the wrong idea and now they’ll be offing themselves as well. ” I bring up this story because it still moves me a lot to think of this guy and I can’t rule out the possibility that he was right about that - I mean, stranger things have happened and I can’t write him off as just being a crazy, mixed up young man because there was so much substance and his impact on people was so profound.

So, that’s rather long winded, and I want you to do the talking, but I just wanted to tell you that story because you might have an insight on it that hadn’t occurred to me or to some of his friends.

David: Within this idea of avatar as it’s expressed in the Vedic tradition there are partial manifestations and then there are full manifestations; that he committed suicide again belongs to the field of content. That was the drama that happened in that life. I don’t know whether he was an Avatar or not - I can’t pretend to know that, but for the sake of discussion there is no way you can define an Avatar by their behavior. Having passed through sahaja samadhi - that’s the essential core realization that is present in an Avatar - it’s the sahaja state. Ramana Maharshi, on another note would talk about sahaja samadhi as being his own condition but… so see this is just all disappearing now, so we’ll just let it disappear, we are not going to talk.

Rick: Ok, I thought you were sort of probing, a pregnant pause and about to come out with something. I don’t think my friend had attained sahaja samadhi - he felt the pain of the world - or maybe he had, I don’t know. But he felt like he was channeling the pain of the world through his nervous system and even though externally he always seemed kind of very bright and in good humor you would talk to him about his subjective state and he seemed to have a very high degree of realization. But he felt things so acutely and perhaps there was still too much of a congealed individuality there or something that he felt he needed to do away with. Because it seems to me that - I could never say anything without counterbalancing it with the opposite perspective in the next breath (that’s just the way I operate) but it seemed to me he could have soldiered on through this thing and come out the other side and become a great light of the world. On the other hand, who knows, maybe this is the role he had to play, maybe this was the contribution he had to make; I mean, it certainly knocked us all back on our heels and made us drop a lot of assumptions.

David: You can’t know about anybody else’s life anyway, you can only know about what you’re going through, who you are.

Rick: Yeah, you really can’t. So when was this sahaja samadhi realization you had? 1996 you said?

David: This has never ended. This is what doesn’t end is this understanding that all realizations have perished and realization is eternal - that there is no arising or subsiding of anything in terms of awakening, in terms of consciousness, in terms of enlightenment. That whole discussion is over will always be over. This sahaja state dawned sometime around 1999, in that time, 1998 or 1999. It is something that just came in a great wave of love and devotion and it just made itself known. It’s hard to speak about this level here, I’m reluctant to even try to comment on sahaja samadhi as though it’s something attained at some point.

Rick: Right. It’s like the clouds cleared and there was a sun shinning but the sun can’t say, “I just arrived in 1998,” it always been shining, in terms of the metaphor, for so many billion years but in terms of what you are referring - forever.

David: It’s something that is very rare actually; it’s quite rare. If you are in this condition and you hear a teacher give a discourse, you can know right away whether they’ve seen That. Unless they are deliberately teaching on a lower level but that’s unlikely, it’s something that’s uniquely expressed in each individual. The cosmic aspect is embodied beautifully in the form and it’s what it is - it’s how it functions. It’s an endless state of absorption in the divine without any peculiar quality to it; it has no outstanding feature or characteristic. You’ve had your mind blown out before with nirvana and various forms of unity and absorption and being - all of that -witnessing…so you’ve been really reduced after all those realizations to something unspeakable if you are lucky enough to be ushered into this condition - this final non-realization. You can find - if you seek diligently, people who talk about this condition.

Rick: Can you name any or would you rather not?

David: Yeah, I can name: U. G. Krishnamurti is one person that I actually knew personally and he gave every indication that sahaja samadhi was his natural state. He would even use the term, “the natural state.” He wasn’t bound by any particular ethical code, he behaved as he liked which is a good sign. There is the quality of the avadhoot present in the sahaja samadhi being, in other words there is something that is completely indifferent to what society thinks.

Rick: Do you think someone in sahaja samadhi is inclined to become a bit, what’s the word, just as you say, not inclined… do you think their outer behavior is inclined, is going to shift to becoming more unconventional because of this realization or might they very well maintain the same style of behavior they had performed prior to that?

David: Impossible to answer.

Rick: Could happen any old way.

David: Excellent question but I can’t touch it.

Rick: Right. You are not suggesting that anyone who shifts into sahaja samadhi is going to become a wild man in some sense, like run down the street and take his clothes off or something, because there have been some pretty crazy wisdom teachers as they say who seem to not…