Utility

Buddha At The Gas Pump Interview With David, Part 6

Recorded on: 
27.06.2010

Rick: …you know, like Anandamayi Ma and things like that. So I imagine you were a bit concerned that you might turn out like one of those.

David: Yes, I knew I was going to turn out like one of those no matter what it took and I didn’t care what the eventual repercussion was. I really was very full of fury, of unbridled fury, to accomplish this. And if I didn’t have that kind of enthusiasm, this could never have taken place. If you told me that I had to walk into a room with a thousand crocodiles, but if I stepped in the right place I’d get through, I would just go through that room. That’s it. That’s what I did. I walked through that room of crocodiles. Usually hands and feet would disappear in the mouths of these illusory entities; in other words you do in fact suffer and sacrifice yourself into this totally. This is not a joy ride on a ferry boat. If you actually knew what this was about you would never go near it. If you had a clear understanding you would never ever approach this, your ego personality would keep you far away from it.

Rick: Your ego would but in the bigger sense if you had a clear understanding what it was about you would certainly go through it as you did because it’s worth it. Right?
I like that smile - I mean if you had it to do over it again you would have done it over again, you wouldn’t have said, “Oh that was too much, I’m not going to do that again.” In fact you probably had no choice. You said you had all this determination and so on but it wasn’t like you could just turn off the determination and think, “Oh I’m just going to be a truck driver.” You had to sort of forge ahead and you didn’t really have any choice in the matter.

David: That’s right. That’s absolutely right. This idea of a choice-less vocation, so to speak, to do this is right on target. It’s not something you would plot given the fact that you can end up mad or insane in the end. You don’t even think to yourself, “Well it might be worth it.” It’s just some kind of inevitability I would say produced by nature. It’s the cravings of nature itself reflecting itself through a human psychology. It’s nature wanting to push a human nervous system to its ultimate eco-fulfillment.

Rick: Very good. I like that. It’s almost like nature said to itself, “Ok boys we’ve got a live one here, let’s give him some juice.” Because obviously you had the potential to end up doing what you are doing and if we speak of nature in a somewhat animate sense there is an intelligence which realized it could express itself with great fullness through this particular vehicle, so it wanted to prepare that vehicle as rapidly and thoroughly as possible in order to have it serve that function. Correct?

David: Right. So at this point if you ask me what this is I’d say I’m no different than a lizard. No different than a blue jay, a rattle snake.

Rick: Right. I understand. Yeah.

David: It’s just a natural functioning, which is really pointing the direction in our discussion towards sahaja samadhi.

Rick: OK.

David: After this unity where everything is the Self occurs and you can go no further, there’s nothing else to see or know about yourself or the world as consciousness. All of that subsides into a still more qualitatively different state. Just as there is a distinction between say, Self-realization and a unified state of Self-realization; the distinction there being only myself being the Absolute vs. the environment as well. There is an additional push beyond that more mature consideration of world and self-unity, and that is sahaja samadhi. That’s what I call the retirement from all realizations. That’s the human element returning unfazed, unimpressed, un-reactive or nonreactive to all that it has realized. It laughs at every single realization. It’s as ignorant as it is enlightened, it has no need for the terms. It’s just what it is. It’s a lizard. It’s a crocodile. It’s an eagle.

Rick: Very interesting. I was listening to a recording of Adyashanti this morning and he was saying something I think very similar to that. He was saying something along the lines of, “You go through a phase where you are no longer a person and then you become a person again.” I think that’s the way he put it, but I think what you are saying is and please clarify or correct me if I’m wrong, that you sort of went through a phase in which the impersonal unity of everything become predominant. Then there was a further stage of development in which living life as a person came into focus again on the foundation of that unified reality. Is that correct?

David: Sahaja samadhi was the devastating loss of my entire spiritual life. It was losing all the investment that I had made into being a yogi, into being a practitioner, a sadhak. I acquired a kind of spiritual identity through all that; an identity which was coexistent and one with all that I had realized. But there’s something that dis-inflates your entire journey, which makes your whole history irrelevant. It lets you see that you are not occupying any state of consciousness and any state of consciousness no matter how high is produced. This sahaja condition is unproduced and therefore it has transcended even this idea of elevating, ascending spiritually, like gaining more and more consciousness, evolving.

Rick: I see. I think I understand what you are saying. Would it be correct to say that states of consciousness are more like different degrees of reflection whereas the sahaja state is more like the realization of that which is reflected (through various reflectors) and in and of itself it does not contain levels or states or gradations of anything. It’s just, it is what it is, in its totality and there can’t be any degrees of it.

David: Let’s bring this discussion to a metaphor.

Rick: OK.

David: The image of a flower, a rose opening. Every state of consciousness that you experience through meditation or through any spiritual technique or practice produces a realization. That is like the buds coming open and they keep opening until there’s just a full opening, until that center is revealed so bees can go in to get the nectar. But the fragrance of the flower is not in the flower and that’s what I’m pointing toward as a metaphor for sahaja samadhi. It’s not in the structure of human language. It doesn’t even exist as a concept within any spiritual lineage. This is the end realization. The realization that ends all realizations, that laughs at all realizations, which means you are the embodied form now of the divine in your humanness. You become a radiant perhaps transmitter or sharer of that perfume which is going on all the time - not radiated for intention. It’s an endless wave of ecstatic perfume going on in all directions, helping all beings without motive without knowledge. So it’s for all beings. It’s not for oneself. There’s no “me” in any of this. There is no attainment. There’s no attainer.

Rick: Were you not a radiator prior to that realization? I mean you could not help but have been a radiator of a deeper reality; or is there some sort of different nature to the radiation at the sahaja samadhi state?

David: Right. There is a different radiation. There is a different nature of the whole context of what is being radiated. You can teach and instruct long before sahaja samadhi. Many gurus are just in either Self-realization state, Atma Vidya. Some perceive beyond that to a more unified state, a unified state of wholeness which I would call mature Self-realization; where the atman is now the paramatman. The atman has gone beyond itself into its own impersonal vastness. Gurus and sat-gurus teach from that level.